Joel Guttormson debates radio show host Bob Enyart (AM 670)
From Theology Online:
“Atheist Billboard spokesman, Joel Guttormson, (“Don’t Believe in God, You’re Not Alone”) will debate Radio talk show host Bob Enyart this Wednesday on Bob’s radio and Internet show (AM 670, Internet www.KGOV.com) .
Both sides have been sent information on the other (Bob’s show with his interview of Dan Barker was sent to Joel, and Joel’s website http://metrostateatheists.wordpress.com/ was sent to Bob).”
The show will at 3pm MT, Wednesday January 7th.
Here is the link to Bob’s interview with our friend Dan Barker.
Commentary on the show can be viewed by using the links below:
Joel’s Commentary
Chalmer’s Commentary
Metro State Atheists
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January 6, 2009 - Posted by Metro State Atheists | Art, Astrology, Astronomy, atheism, Bacteriology, Bible, biology, Blurb, Calculus, Censorship, Center For Inquiry, Chemistry, Christianity, creationism, Differential Equations, Events, First Century, god, Humor, Interview, Jesus, Jesus Christ, Jesus is Lord, Language, Lecture, Mathematics, Medicine, Metro State Atheists, Microbiology, Morality, Movies, New Testament, News, Newsletter, Old Testament, Organic Chemistry, Party, philosophy, Pictures, Poetry, Politics, Poll, Press Release, Pseudomedicine, Pseudoscience, Qoutes, religion, Rome, Satire, science, Scientology, Sirius, splendid elles, The Holy Bible, The Trickster | AM 670, Atheist, Atheist Billboards, Atheist Billboards CO, Atheist Billboards Denver, Bob, Bob Enyart, cocore, Debate, Joel, Joel Guttormson, Joel Guttormson Debates Bob Enyart, KGOV, Metro State Atheists, MSA, Theology Online
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I listened to the former interview w/ Bob “the believer” and I cannot stand his arrogance in demanding his definitions, his need to put words in the mouth of Dan Barker, and his absolute deafness to understanding the scientific method along with the difference between a concept created by humans, such as truth, vs. a measurable phenomenon, such as time. As a Christian apologist, Bob represents the Christians with closed minds.
Good luck with your debate. I just hope you’re prepared to deal with the lies, personal attacks and other dishonest tactics that this guy is likely to throw at you.
Thank you Greg! I very much appreciate the support!
Nice job today, Joel. You came across as reasonable and intelligent, and didn’t let him trap you.
Joel, I enjoyed talking with you. Here’s the observation I was making re Einstein; this quote with links is at TheologyOnline.com’s Euthyphro thread:
In 1936 Einstein famously wrote, “the most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible,” and in 1944, remarking about atheist Bertrand Russell, he described the ability to get from matter to ideas as a “gulf–logically unbridgeable,” which some scientists and linguists refer to as Einstein’s Gulf, and in 1950, Einstein wrote that “science can only ascertain what is, but not what should be,” necessarily excluding from its domain “value judgments of all kinds.” The laws of the physical sciences do not employ the moral concepts of right and wrong and the laws of logic are not physical (no mass, polarity, etc.)…
Thanks for talking!
-Pastor Bob Enyart
Denver Bible Church & KGOV.com
I’m glad to see I was wrong about how Bob Enyart conducted the show. I may disagree with him totally, but at least he was a pleasant host.
This was way too broad a topic to be handled in a 30 minute show, but I think you represented us well, Joel.
Interesting comments by Bob on logic and reasoning. Unfortunately they are quite dated, as are Einstein’s — though Einstein has a good excuse of course. If Einstein had access to work done by the various branches of neuroscience and cognitive science, I’m sure he’d have interesting comments to make on the subject of human minds. At present there’s not really much question about the material basis of mind; and I find it surprising that someone who claims to understand evolution would say otherwise (okay, not really surprising) — any complex social animal has morals in the same sense that we do; the egotistic just put greater emphasis on our own. Any of the so called transcendent attributes of human behavior, love, loyalty, morality, etc. are names given to modes of behavior that have obvious benefit in gene propagation. As for their operation in physical reality, they are simple restrictions and urges imposed on minds by particular neuronal configurations — hardly worth mention in debates on religious truth. The question of how consciousness works is indeed tricky, but really, it’s useless getting caught up in the basics meanwhile. I anxiously await the arrival of more complicated artificial intelligences so people can stop claiming emotions are transcendent (the perception of them is at least worth asking about, but that’s the issue of consciousness).
Does playing chess require logic? Well then, computers must have souls or spirits in order to be winning against human Grandmasters at this endeavor, according to Bob’s immaterial reasoning.
I’d like to ask-a-Christian: why aren’t Christians born in in Iraq? Could our belief in Christianity, or Islam, come from what our parents tell us in our youth? I mean, don’t you realize there are people all over the world with equally strong convictions in their mystical ideas, ideas which have the same foundation as your own with different particulars? No one has faith in God, they have faith in the person who told them God exists, all the way down the line to whoever wrote the holy book they’re reading. Praise Zeus, the true heavenly father.
Read “23 Minutes in Hell.”
“The fool says in his heart, ‘there is no God.”
I’m sacred…so scared…..not. Ya know…you’re not the first person to tell me this.
Next time try saying something original!
Joel
Expand your mind. Read something that isn’t based on that overblown, unoriginal book you call the bible.
After hearing the debate, I became a devout believer in Christ… I believe me and others were atheist only out of arrogance and closed-mindedness!