Metro State Atheists

Promoting Science, Reason, and Secular Values

Was Hitler An Atheist?

See for yourself.

“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.”

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

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October 11, 2008 - Posted by | Bible, Christianity, god, Qoutes | , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

29 Comments »

  1. Who cares what he claims as his religion. What matters is the actions. If I said “my lack of belief as an atheist…” yet I believed in a god, I would not be an atheist. So instead of looking at what Hitler said, let’s look at what he did. Surprise, he killed millions. He was not a Christian. A Christian by definition has been “born again” (John 3:3) and given a completely new nature. That doesn’t mean they will be completely without mistakes this side of Heaven, but it does mean you won’t be murdering millions of people.

    Comment by Justin | February 18, 2009

  2. If I had a dime for every time I’ve heard this argument “He was not a Christian” I think I’d have enough money to allow the entirety of the world to retire comfortably. It really isn’t up to YOU to decide who is and is not a Christian. Didn’t Jesus also say something to the effect of…Judge not, lest ye be judged? Meaning…you have no “Christian right” to judge any one else’s Christian credentials or otherwise judge them without knowing them? That the theological reason you’re wrong, even though I’m not a Christian I can still oppose you from that point of view.

    As for the logical reason. Hitler never renounced his belief in Christianity and the Pope made his birthday a holiday which he (the pope) required all Catholics to observe and Hitler never once took exception to this either. It’s clear that he was a Christian…just as Christian as those that carried out the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trails, the shooter in Eldora (in CO), and as Ted Haggard.

    Don’t like the association? Join a different crowd.

    Joel

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 20, 2009

  3. Joel, read the conversation we have had again. Hitler can be a Christian in name all he wants. The real question is he saved or born again? A born again person is a changed person. As for judging, read the next verse. It tells us to not judge hypocritically. Other verses in the Bible tell us we must make judgments. And even if the Bible told us to make no judgments, you would be guilty yourself for using that verse to judge me.

    Comment by Justin | February 20, 2009

  4. Hitler was Christian. As you said, though, Jutin “Who cares…” When we try to judge a religion on the basis of its representatives, we are doing a very stupid thing. I posted this to counter the argument that we often encounter, wherein it is claimed that Hitler was an atheist, and which people often issue to challenge the morality of atheism. The argument is irrational, and it is based on a lie. Hitler believed that Jesus was the Son of God and the savior of mankind. He is, therefore, a Christian. This says nothing about the religion, it just point out how silly it is for religious people to call Hitler an atheist, as though the observation (true or false) is relevant at all.
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 20, 2009

  5. Ok, well I didn’t make that claim so instead of arguing about what you think I might claim, why don’t you discuss what we’re actually talking about. It doesn’t matter what box Hitler would have checked if he were asked his religion in a survey. What matters is can he represent those of us who claim to be born again. Since his life did not change, he cannot claim to be a born again Christian which is the only type of Christian (true converts) that really matters.

    Comment by Justin | February 20, 2009

  6. I was simply justifying why posted the blog, it had nothing to do with what I thought you might personally claim (how could it?). And it does matter what religion Hitler would claim, becuase you don’t get to decide what religion he was. He gets to decide and, unless you a psychic, you have not basis with which to challenge his claim. You’re making subjective claims about what you think warrants the title of Christianity. Believing in the divinity of Christ is all it takes, period. Whether or not the meet your standards of “true” Christianity is wholly irrelevant. Mormons, Catholics, Jehovah witnesses…you’re Christians whether you like it or not. Religious affiliation is not, nor has it ever been, defined in terms of representation.
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 20, 2009

  7. Chalmer, you said “You’re making subjective claims about what you think warrants the title of Christianity.” That is absolutely not true. In fact, I said quote “Hitler can be a Christian in name all he wants”. I am not saying that statistically out of people claiming Christian on a world religions survey that you couldn’t count Hitler. What I am saying is that the much more exclusive claim – that of being “born again” – is the only classification that really counts. Is this a subjective classification that I make the standards for like you claimed? No, of course not. I didn’t make up the standards. The Bible does. The Bible tells us we must be born again (John 3:3). The Bible says there will be true and false converts in the church (See Matthew 13:24-30). This parable teaches that the authentically saved and the deceived unsaved will exist together within a church. Here are ten points from the Bible to help discern true converts which shows while Hitler may caim the title “Christian”, he cannot claim the title “born again” which is the only type of Christian that matters. This list was compiled by Todd Friel:
    1. 1 John 1:7 – “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
    If we are a genuine Christian, we will enjoy the fellowship of other Christians. We might have Pagan friends, but we love the fellowship of the brethren!

    2. 1 John 1:8 -” If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
    We must recognize to our core that we are filthy, wretched, and that we have an abominable heart.

    3. 1 John 2:3 – “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”
    True Christians strive to obey God.

    4. 1 John 2:15 – “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”
    Do we love the world? Do the things of the world excite us the most?

    5. 1 John 2:23 – “Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”
    Do we know who Jesus Christ is? Do we have correct Christology? Do we have the right Jesus? Do we understand that Jesus is God Himself, in a Trinitarian sense? If not, then we do not have the Father.

    6. 1 John 3:2 – “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
    Is this our hope, to see God? True Christians can’t wait to see God! Not because we’re tired and weary, but because we LONG to see the Savior who we love!

    7. 1 John 3:8-9 – “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
    This is a tough one. Do we continue to sin without fighting it? The Christian walk is not about perfection (1 John 1:8), but it is about direction. The believer will grow in holiness. If we are not growing in holiness, we might not be a true Christian. We ought to be holier than we were last year. We won’t reach perfection until God brings us to glory, but we ought to be moving in that direction.

    8. 1 John 3:14 – “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.”
    Not only do true Christians love fellowship with other Christians, but we actually love Christians as well, and it shows!

    9. 1 John 4:6 – “We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”
    True Christians love to listen to good Bible preaching, teaching, and hearing the Word. We love it!

    10. 1 John 4:15 – “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”
    What would you think of a Doctor who had the cure to cancer but was too busy to share it? Cursed Doctor!
    True Christians intentionally proclaim Christ. We don’t wait for someone to come up to us to ask us. We intentionally proclaim Christ. How can we not share the Words of life?

    I hope this helps you understand that perhaps people can be defined in a particular religion by whatever they claim, being born again actually requires the life to be radically transformed. Hitler cannon claim to be a “born again Christian”.

    Comment by Justin | February 21, 2009

  8. I fail to see how any one of those excludes Hitler.

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 21, 2009

  9. Justin…I’ve often been accused of taking the bible “out on context” but you have upstaged me and just made stuff up. John 3:3 doesn’t saying anything about being a Christian…the world doesn’t appear in the cannonical gospels . John 3:3 actually says “3In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203:3;&version=31😉 Notice…the word Christian doesn’t appear in there. If your definition is of your own making…(ie. you are equating the seeing of the kingdom of god with being a Christian) then it is quite subjective. Jesus also prescribes that people should eat flesh and drink blood, which according to you would mean that cannibals are Christians. “Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” (John 6:53) But of course, by now there is steam coming out of your ears…because you’ll be thinking or saying something to the effect of “well…that’s a metaphor..its not to be taken literally”..fine…but then you have to use that standard on John 3:3 meaning that you can’t take that verse literally and must be taken as a metaphor. Further, the passage about judgement reads, Luke 6: 36-40 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” There I have provided serveral verse “after” the one in question and I see nothing about judge hyprcitically. I notice you were able to spill bible verse for Chalmer, yet you provide none to me to back up your claims.

    Therfore, either everything in the bible can be taken literally or metaphorically as Jesus…being the son of god was also fully god and god is supposed to be perfect. If god wrote the bible or inspired those to do so, that implies there can be no way of taking any passage out of context.

    Joel

    Comment by Anonymous | February 22, 2009

  10. I’ll just focus on one. Number three – he consistently broke his commandments by murdering millions. This shows him to not be born again.

    Comment by Justin | February 22, 2009

  11. Justin,
    God breaks that very same commandment numerous times in the OT. As well, he asked his chosen people to break that commandment on multiple occasions. This all seems inconsistent.
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 23, 2009

  12. When I try to imagine the preliminary dialogue between Hitler and Yahweh, I imagine something akin to the following.

    Hitler: “So, do I get to go to heaven.”
    God: “I’m afraid not. You see, attempting genocide is sort of shunned up on here. Unless, of course, your slaughtering Canaanites. I’m cool with that.”
    Hitler: “Um…well…forgive me?”
    God: “Ok! Welcome to heaven homey.”

    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 23, 2009

  13. Metro, you may not like the death penalty, but I will use this as an example to help you understand. When the death penalty works as planned, the guilty person has justice when they are executed. God’s ending of life is just. God is supportive of justice, but he also extends mercy toward you. How do I know that? Because you are still alive! Repent and believe the gospel. When that happens, I will see a completely changed life – one we did not see in Hitler’s – which means you will be “born again”.

    Comment by Justin | February 23, 2009

  14. Justin,
    Murder is hardly ever just and, in my eyes, your God murders in the least just of circumstances and is, therefore, one of the greatest fictional villains of our time. Hitler believed, totally and completely, that his quest was just. Your God, purportedly, believes the same. I can see no difference, and I mean that in the most literal and sincere way possible, between the motive, dialogue, character, and persona of Hitler and of God. They are both genocidal, cruel, petty, sociopaths. The doctrine of Christianity does not exclude Hitler, rather, it deifies him. Hitler is more like your god than most men. If omnipresence could have a silly mustache…well, you get the idea.
    As for your proclamation of his divinity, your veiled threat on behalf of your deity, and the prospect of our being saved, I have only the following to say: Your God allows Hell to exist and is, therefore, the cruelest and most vile potential entity. If your God did exist I would, with total conviction and dedication, refuse to worship the evil bastard. I would leap into the lake of fire a free man, and embrace eternal suffering over eternal servitude and comfort with pride and without a seconds long thought. – Chalmer (VP)

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 23, 2009

  15. You said “If your God did exist I would, with total conviction and dedication, refuse to worship the evil bastard. I would leap into the lake of fire a free man, and embrace eternal suffering over eternal servitude and comfort with pride and without a seconds long thought.”

    You won’t get the chance because everyone will be judged guilty or as innocent as Jesus paid the price for one’s sin. God will judge so look at His commandments. Have you lied, stolen, lusted (which is adultery at heart), hated (which is murder at heart), dishonored your parents, misused your time, not given God appreciation for what he has given you, or misused His name or title? Then you would be guilty and go to God’s jail – Hell. I am not saying everyone get’s the same punishment in Hell, but that is where all the unredeemed sinners will be. Also, this is off the topic.

    Will you admit that Hitler does not fit the bill of a “born again Christian”? If not then it seems that you are being unreasonable. I am being reasonable and can admit Hitler as a Christian if you can admit he does not fit the description for a “born again Christian”.

    Comment by Justin | February 23, 2009

  16. “God will judge so look at His commandments.”

    Holy crap, I’ve never heard that unsupported claim before! I mean , since you put it that way, without evidence or justification, I totally get it now. Now it seems even stupider than the countless other times its been chanted at me. Saying something doesn’t make it true. If you can’t back it up, then don’t say it (Quoting the Bible is no more evidence for God than LOR is evidence for elves).

    “Have you (1) lied, (2)stolen, (3)lusted (which is adultery at heart), (4)hated (which is murder at heart), (5)dishonored your parents, (6)misused your time, (7)not given God appreciation for what he has given you, (8) or misused His name or title?”

    1) Yes, but not anymore.
    2) When I was a stupid kid.
    3) Yes…but I don’t have a problem with that. Wanting to have sex is sort of important for the prorogation of the species.
    4) Not anymore
    5) Define honor?
    6) Nope!
    7) God hasn’t given me anything.
    8) Constantly

    “Then you would be guilty and go to God’s jail – Hell.”

    I’m trembling with fear, really. I’m beginning to think the basis for your theology is an irrational and juvenile concept of punishment.

    “Will you admit that Hitler does not fit the bill of a “born again Christian”? If not then it seems that you are being unreasonable. I am being reasonable and can admit Hitler as a Christian if you can admit he does not fit the description for a “born again Christian”.”

    You’ve failed to demonstrate that your definition of “born again” excludes Hitler.
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 23, 2009

  17. P.S., this is how you sound to us when you proclaim to know the nature of God.

    “You won’t get the chance because everyone will be judged guilty or as innocent as [Martyr] paid the price for one’s sin’s. [Godhead] will judge so look at [Godhead’s rules]. Have you lied, stolen, lusted (which is adultery at heart), hated (which is murder at heart), dishonored your parents, misused your time, not given [Godhead] appreciation for what he has given you, or misused [Godhead’s] name or title? Then you would be guilty and go to [Godhead’s] jail – [Underworld, Hades, Hell, Sheol, Purgatory, Big Scary Place, etc.]. I am not saying everyone get’s the same punishment in [Big Scary Place], but that is where all the unredeemed [Rule Breakers] will be. Also, this is off the topic (really!?!? That is becuase its a red hearing. I made several points about Hitler, and your definition regarding born again, which you failed to address in your response).

    Anyway, from now on spare us this kind of stuff. To us, you sound like every other religious person. your claims sound nearly identical to those of every other religion. We hear the same stuff from the Moslems, the Jews, and the Scientologist. So don’t bother, its about as effective as trying to nail jello to a wall.
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 23, 2009

  18. Chalmer, I have no problem with you belittiling my beliefs, but you have proved to be unreasonabe and irrational when it comes to admiting Hitler does not fit the bill for a born again Christian whose life radically changes for the better. If you won’t be reasonable, there is no reason to continue. I hope you are well. 🙂

    Comment by Justin | February 23, 2009

  19. Justin,
    I think I know what the problem here is. I’m not entirely clear on the difference between a born again Christian, and a regular Christian. Also, I’m not entirely sure why it matters. If your referring to a particular stance in the scope of Christianity, fine. I did not claim, though, that Hitler was a Mormon, a catholic, or any other specific denomination. Hitler meets the minimum requirements to be considered a “Christian,” born again or not. To be honest, I think you changed the argument, as whether or not he was born again is wholly irrelevant to me. Why do you want me to admit hes not born again? Also, I fail to see how your description of being born again excludes Hitler. Rather than addressing my concerns you respond with “you’re being unreasonable” and then you proceed to preach, hence my frustration. If my understanding is flawed, then explain it to me. I raised a valid and genuine concern a few posts back, and you never addressed it and, instead, told me about God’s judgment. Finally, why does it matter if he was “born again?”
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 23, 2009

  20. It matters whether or not he was born again because even the Bible claims there will be false Christians. He used the parables of the wheat and the weeds, the foolish and the wise virgins, the good fish and the bad fish, etc. The Bible says that ‘Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven’ so there will be professing Christians (like Hitler) and genuine born again Christians. A way of testing a genuine born again Christian is the radical change of life for good. Hitler can not claim a morally changed life for Christ.

    Comment by Justin | February 26, 2009

  21. Jesus also says one needs to hate his family in order to be a disciple…(ie…a “real” Christian…whatever that is) Luke 14:26. If you’re going to try the “you’re taking that out of context”, please tell me how. If you’re going to use the mistranslation argument, the translation I used is in 18/22 bibles i have available to me. So argument is bunk. You must realize that your so-called standard is completely and utterly subjective to you and what you choose to pick out from the bible. The bible also says that the earth is flat and that pi=3 and that the earth is only about 10,000 years old, never mentions dinosaurs, and the jews were slaves in Egypt. The bible isn’t the greatest wealth of knowledge…in fact, the only thing the bible has any wealth of, its myth and hilarity.

    Joel

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 26, 2009

  22. Oh how wonderful is the verse of Luke 14:26! You are not a Christian so I don’t expect you to understand it, but I will tell you. This verse tells us that our love for God/Christ should be so high that people would see our love for our family as hatred. You know Jesus isn’t actually telling us to hate our family as his ministry told us to love God ad love our neighbor as ourself.

    You also did a type of attack that is common among atheists (and others). Give out a list of attacks all at once. Please avoid this. Where does the Bible say “the earth is flat”? That is simply not the message of the Bible. The word dinosaur is relatively young so of course the Bible doesn’t use that word. Other things you just reject off hand because you don’t know about it – a horrible way to decide truth.

    Comment by Justin | February 27, 2009

  23. And P.S. This was only to get off the real topic – admitting Hitler was not a born again/genuine covert to Christianity.

    Comment by Justin | February 27, 2009

  24. no no Justin. I don’t understand it. You just used the verse metaphorically as I knew you would. You take the John 3:3 verse literally but when I bring up Luke 14:26…it’s all of the sudden not literal. To quote you “a horrible way to decide truth.” The bible implies the earth is flat when the story of jesus being able to stand on a mountain and see the entire world. The only way that would be even remotely possible is if the earth was flat. They may not have had the word dinosaur but remember…god wrote the book so god would have had a word for it and could have told the humans about them but didn’t…why? because the bible was written by ignorant, bigoted and foolish men who didn’t have the faintest idea of what “love” and “charity” were. You ever notice it’s called the story of the “Good Samaritan” and not the “Good Jew” or the “Good Christian”. That’s because one doesn’t need your silly fairy tale god to be good.

    Joel

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 27, 2009

  25. Again, I think for about the 4th or 5th time. That is your, subjective and wholly personal reading of certain parts of the fairy tale book called the bible. That’s not sufficient criteria to say someone isn’t a Christian. All that is required to be a Christian, at minimum is to believe in the divinity of the mythical figure of Jesus Christ. Done.

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 27, 2009

  26. Metro, you misunderstand my hermeneutics – the way of interpreting scripture. You do take verses literally including Luke 14:26. This verse though is hyperbole. It is literal (for instance, hate doesn’t mean infatuation. It really says hate), however it is hyperbole to make a point. It is like if I said “She was as tall as the Empire State building.” I shouldn’t say the building means a miniature model of the building. It really means the Empire State Building, but it is hyperbole to make a point.

    Second, what specific verses do you speak of? Even without knowing what verses you are referencing, Jesus being God could of course see the whole world. You act as if if the world were flat, you would accept that verse. No you wouldn’t! You would say “it is impossible to see that far even on a mountain”. The fact is Jesus is God and can do whatever He wants.

    You say “god wrote the book so god would have had a word for it and could have told the humans about them but didn’t…why?” Simple answer. He did. You don’t read your Bible and simply accept what people have told you.

    The Good Samaritan was called such to make a point – that doing good does not have to do with who you are or where you’re from. Read your Bible.

    Also, the definition of born again isn’t something I made up. It is all throughout the Bible. You just act as if you have more authority to declare people Christians than the belief’s actual Holy book.

    Comment by Justin | February 27, 2009

  27. Justin, seriously man. You either accept the whole aweful fiction that the bible is or you don’t at face value. Accusing me of not reading the bible (presumable in the way you do) is a red haring argument to distract people from the argument and points being made. I don’t think I have accused you of not reading the silly book, I’m sure you have. problem is you are inconsistent and trying to apply subjective values and ideas to other people. This is, of course, the problem with Christianity to begin with. The 5-year-old mentality of “with us or against us” is really tired and old. You’ll just have to get over the fact that Hitler was a Christianity and killed FOR Christianity. Are you also going to tell me the Crusaders and the Inquisitors weren’t Christians either because its simply inconvenient to you and you’re baseless claims about reality? Hitler was no less Christian that you are, you’re just a different form of Christian. Are you now going to tell me about all the other sects aren’t Christians either? Like Catholics or 7th Day Adventist or Mormons? Really, Justin, unless you plan on presenting well-reasoned arguments that have a basis other than the fairy tale book known as the bible, then please refrain from wasting our time and stop cluttering our blog with inane ranting of preaching and degradation of others. That’s not what we’re about.

    Joel

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | February 27, 2009

  28. ok.

    Comment by Justin | February 27, 2009


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