Metro State Atheists

Promoting Science, Reason, and Secular Values

Should “In God We Trust” Remain On Our Money?

Should “In God We Trust” remain on our money?  Cast your vote at www.msnbc.msn.

Personally, I think our government should represent everyone, not just the majority.  I’m not hell bent on having it removed, but it is sort of a slap in the face.  The statement “In God We Trust” is totally and absolutely false.  If it said “In God Most Of Us Trust,” I imagine it would bug me a lot less.  I’m serious, though, as to why so many people want it kept on the money?  Please forgive my pragmatism, but what practical purpose does it serve?

– Chalmer

March 21, 2009 - Posted by | atheism, Politics | , , , , ,

72 Comments »

  1. Eh, that poll is ancient. It’s been commented about so many times on Pharyngula, that PZ Myers has asked people to stop commenting on it. Even if they’re still tallying votes, there’s over 13 million responses now, so a few more aren’t going to change anything.

    Comment by Daft Greg | March 23, 2009

  2. I personally, would like to see it removed, but it’s not likely to happen in my lifetime. We just have to make sure we don’t let more encroachments of what should be private beliefs into the public sphere.

    Comment by Daft Greg | March 23, 2009

  3. ditto
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | March 23, 2009

  4. Here are 2 lines from the 4th stanza of “The Star Spangled Banner”:
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just
    And this be our motto, In God Is Our Trust

    It seems to me if someone wants “In God We Trust” removed from U.S. money, they also want the U.S. to get another national anthem.

    Comment by Jim | April 18, 2009

  5. Jim
    I suppose I would agree with that
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | April 18, 2009

  6. Jim. It would do you some good to crack open a history book or two. The motto “In God We Trust” didn’t usurp the previous motto “E Pluribus Unum” until in the 1950’s, which is also when it showed up on our paper money. Francis Scott Key wrote that poem during the war of 1812, specifically 1814, well before our motto was changed. Francis Scott Key was speaking about the troops, not the citizens of the country. Also, if you’ve actually ever listened to than anthem, those lines along with most of the rest of the poem, aren’t sung as part of the official anthem of the country. Nice quote mining, but you’ll have to do better than that. And yes. I wouldn’t mind a different anthem, I also wouldn’t mind our money being restored to its original design, pre 1954. Simply claiming this country is christian nation or one that, 100% acknowledges your invisible friend named god doesn’t make it so.

    Joel

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | April 18, 2009

  7. Greetings to All

    In God We trust goes a lot deeper than many realize
    First – let me state that I practice nor believe in any religion I have been working with experiential spiritual proofs for the last fifteen years

    First – God exists and is what all HuManity is here as – as one living whole – which is experientially provable

    Second – In God We Trust points to the source of the value of the “money” All the pieces of paper are the same size – what gives a 10 more value than a 20? We give it the value by an act of creation that is experiential time and time again withoug fail We all participate as God in creating the value in the money Any living HuMan Being can create money

    Thirs – the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK is a CORPORATION What is a corporation “An artificial being immortal intangible existing only in contemplation of law” John Marshal acting in the office of US SUPREME COURT JUSTICE Can something that has no body no voice no mind no spirit create anything No
    THE FEDERAL RESERVE creates nothing – the Living HuMan Beings within the FRB create “money out of nothing” WE – as one whole Living Being – give it the value and spiritually participate in even the physical acts of creating the money

    The FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE side of the bill is the “for debts” side – this side keeps us all in debt

    The IN GOD WE TRUST side of the bill is the credit side and we use it to create abundance

    You pick

    There – that ought to create total uproar on all sides

    Comment by As God All Living Anne | April 30, 2009

  8. “God exists and is what all HuManity is here as – as one living whole – which is experientially provable”

    You have yet to prove god exists. Humanities existence is evidence for nothing supernatural.

    “In God We Trust points to the source of the value of the “money” All the pieces of paper are the same size – what gives a 10 more value than a 20? We give it the value by an act of creation that is experiential time and time again withoug fail We all participate as God in creating the value in the money Any living HuMan Being can create money”

    Wrong again. Confirmation bias seems to permeate your every response doesn’t it? The value of money went from the gold standard, to the silver standard to the standard of import/export strength and credit. Please educate yourself before relying on your New Age mumbo jumbo.

    “he FEDERAL RESERVE BANK is a CORPORATION What is a corporation “An artificial being immortal intangible existing only in contemplation of law” John Marshal acting in the office of US SUPREME COURT JUSTICE Can something that has no body no voice no mind no spirit create anything No
    THE FEDERAL RESERVE creates nothing – the Living HuMan Beings within the FRB create “money out of nothing” WE – as one whole Living Being – give it the value and spiritually participate in even the physical acts of creating the money”

    First I should point out that no matter how much you use full caps, it doesn’t make your point more correct. Second, what is your source for that definition? The Oxford English Dictionary defines a corperation as “An incorporated company of traders having (originally) the monopoly and control of their particular trade in a borough or other place; a trade-guild, a city ‘company’” The Federal Reserve Bank does create money. As the bank is made of of people under a single banner. Again, refrain from the New Age jargon and stick to empirical data.

    “The FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE side of the bill is the “for debts” side – this side keeps us all in debt”

    Quote mined and fallacy ridden. It says “For all debts, public and private”. Want for an item in a store is a debt, to pay for it, you use money. It’s not hard.

    “The IN GOD WE TRUST side of the bill is the credit side and we use it to create abundance”

    Abundance of what? You realize that with that malarkey on our money we still ended up in a deep recession? Nice try but you fail again.

    Joel

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | April 30, 2009

  9. I don’t understand why its such a big deal NOW. It has been on our money for how long and you pick now to try and take the name God off of everything?

    Comment by Jessica | June 15, 2009

  10. Do some homework and find out when “Under God” was added to the pledge and “In God We Trust”. When you find out (and I know you will) that it was a little more than 50 years ago…you’ll see that you have no argument. “How long” you ask…I just answered a little more than 50 years. Yet the USA is more than 200 years old. 1/4 is not a compelling faction of time to me, or anyone else. Please, before deciding to comment using rhetoric you heard from you pastor/priest/mother/father/brother/sister or whoever you heard it from, think first, research, do your homework, because I promise you we have.

    Joel

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | June 15, 2009

  11. Jessica,
    It is big deal to me NOW because I wasn’t alive in the 50s when it wan introduced. If I had been, it would have been a big deal to me then, too. it was only 5 years ago I became a legal adult. If I had objected 5 minutes after existing the womb, would my position on the issue be anymore or less valid? I haven’t made a big deal about it until recently because I didn’t event exist until 1986. Besides, bullshit is bullshit, no matter how long its been around.
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | June 15, 2009

  12. To add to Chalmer’s comment, the longer bullshit has been around, the higher and more grotesque the pile tends to become, as is the case with this issue.

    Joel

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | June 15, 2009

  13. If you are tying to make a point about when it was put on money, you failed to read it yourself. It was put on coins in the late 1800s not paper money.

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | July 7, 2009

  14. the country represents more than just mono-theistic religion practicing americans, it represents all americans

    separation of church and state was put in place to protect the minority from the whims of the majority …equal representation

    does having a pro-monotheistic quote on our currency evoke these values of equal representation?

    our gov’t was structured around NOT being a theocracy

    this isn’t an issue of “the deterioration of the moral fiber of society” as every fundamentalist christian would have you believe , its an issue of equal representation ..an ideology that this country was founded on.

    Comment by Lance | July 24, 2009

  15. “IN GOD WE TRUST” is a symbol of hope. Our beautiful country was built on sound prinicipals. If you don’t like what OUR money says, don’t spend it!!, don’t use it!!, and don’t read it!!. There are other means of spending like: ordering on line, credit cards, bankdrafts, duh!!!!!!.

    Comment by carolyn johnson | July 31, 2009

  16. Here we have yet another uninformed Christian. The slogan wasn’t slapped on our money or made our motto till the 1950s. Furthermore most of the founders we’re deists that had little regard for Christianity. Also see the Treaty of Tripoli article 11, “as the government of the United States is in no way founded on the Christian religion”.- Joel

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | July 31, 2009

  17. “IN GOD WE TRUST” is a symbol of your hope. Our beautiful country was not built on theism. If I don’t like how my country represents me, I’m going to speak out and if you don’t want to hear it move to China.
    Spending money another way won’t change my country’s misrepresentation of its populace.
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | July 31, 2009

  18. After readin these comments, it has become quite obvious. Me being part of the 30 million atheists in this country thinks this line should be taken off the money. Logical alternatives are available. Such as “In Unity We Trust” or “In Each Other We Trust.” Since the money is only worth what it says it is since we trust one another about its actual value. Plus, this country was built on unity as much as religious freedom.

    Comment by Jack | August 3, 2009

  19. Thanks Jack, and I agree.

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | August 4, 2009

  20. I thought it was almost comical when I read, ‘I’m not HELL bent on having it removed…” Pretty strange coming from an atheist.

    Comment by rick | August 26, 2009

  21. Just as good IN SANTA WE TRUST its a efn joke. God believers are a bunch of donkeys, no other way to describe.

    Comment by Pedro | September 3, 2009

  22. if you dont like in god we trust on money quit using our money then, it might make you closer to him then! live like they use too! work for trade, barter. oh i forgot we’re to greedy we have to out do one another! ooops

    Comment by dodgeman | September 8, 2009

  23. if you dont like america and it’s ways simply leave this god loving country!

    Comment by dodgeman | September 8, 2009

  24. We love American, dogeman, as well as our fellow Americans. We are not trying to protect ourselves from our country. We are trying to protect our country and our fellow Americans from people like you.
    – Chalmer

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | September 9, 2009

  25. Chalmer what does america stand for?

    Comment by dodgeman | September 9, 2009

  26. not knocking anyones beliefs, but thats just the way it is.
    america “in god we trust”

    Comment by dodgeman | September 9, 2009

  27. won’t it cost more money to have it changed? Wouldn’t it be like taking part of america’s history away even if it only has been around for 50 years. Not that I’m saying any ones wrong or right. I just would like to know. Also what will happen if the money was to be taken back and so that they may remove the motto. Will we still have money to use? Also would they just make new money and would we still beable to use the money with the old motto?

    Comment by Tan | September 10, 2009

  28. Tan,
    1) They update bills pretty frequently, so leaving something off would cost no more than putting something on the next time they change it. I wouldn’t actually expect them to replace all our existing currency. I think that would be unreasonable.
    2) We aren’t taking away America’s history. This isn’t a book burning. It’s still a part of our history even if its no longer our national motto.

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | September 10, 2009

  29. Tan, the change of our motto was a violation of the constitution. A part of history it may be, constitutional it is not.

    -V

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | September 13, 2009

  30. dodgeman: “what does america stand for?”

    I’ll answer that question for Chalmer; it stands for liberty and freedom, neither of which include god in the equation.

    Any more questions??

    Comment by Dissadent | September 25, 2009

  31. I have battled with this topic for awhile now; I am an Atheist and very confident in my views. I have had no problems with “In God We Trust” on our currency. That is until my beloved city of Brea decided to take up this argument by wanting to “In God We Trust” in the council chambers. I was outraged for so many reasons: for one, representation, two it is wasted money that could better be utilized in the city of Brea, but I digress. I am okay with people who oppose my views (as long as they are civil); you know the “sticks and stones” saying? I do have a problem when someone tries to force a slogan down my throat; and I have a problem with all politicians who don’t speak for the minority. The problem is this: “In God We Trust” is a lie! Who is “We” in this motto? Who is covered under the “We” umbrella? Certainly not me and millions who do not believe in a god. Certainly not the polytheistic community. Look I am all for a state\
    city motto that reflects the city\state\country as a whole not just a select few. Here is the grown up way of handling this situation: eliminate the motto from all public places in which tax payer dollars are concerned. Simple. Having a motto “In God We Trust” is not patriotic…yes I said it! Being patriotic is actions not words. No matter what the side of the coin you are on (no pun intended) a motto does not make you a stronger. To those theist out there, I will make a deal with with you I am in favor of the ” In God We Trust” motto IF and only if you will put right below it a motto for those non-believers that reads ” There probably is no god…so now move on with your lives….” . That motto should be where it belongs, in the history books and not on currency or publicly funded property.

    Comment by thebigatheist | September 25, 2009

  32. The phrase “separation of church and state” is not in the constitution, declaration of independence or the bill of rights as most Ammericans suppose. The phrase came from a letter one man wrote to another. If you look at the lives of the founding fathers of our nation, you will see their belief in God and the Bible.

    Comment by Peggy | October 2, 2009

  33. ABC did a survey in August 74% of us are Christians let’s let the majority rule for a change

    Comment by Mr & Mrs Dworack | October 9, 2009

  34. Joel, you obviously choose to live like an ostrich with your head in the sand. Here is some history information that I you can easily find on the web:

    It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States. This meant that the mint could make no changes without the enactment of additional legislation by the Congress. In December 1863, the Director of the Mint submitted designs for new one-cent coin, two-cent coin, and three-cent coin to Secretary Chase for approval. He proposed that upon the designs either OUR COUNTRY; OUR GOD or GOD, OUR TRUST should appear as a motto on the coins. In a letter to the Mint Director on December 9, 1863, Secretary Chase stated:

    I approve your mottoes, only suggesting that on that with the Washington obverse the motto should begin with the word OUR, so as to read OUR GOD AND OUR COUNTRY. And on that with the shield, it should be changed so as to read: IN GOD WE TRUST.

    The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

    Comment by Steve | October 19, 2009

  35. E Pluribus Unum – (Out of Many, One) is the motto that best describes our nation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_pluribus_unum

    In God We Trust is inaccurate – it should read, In God Some Trust. Any We in our national motto must be all-inclusive, covering ALL citizens, believers and non-believers alike. The Supreme Court didn’t have the guts to stand up to the mob when they dodged the constitutionality issue.

    Comment by Skeptic | October 31, 2009

  36. I am aware of your info, it is paper money (most used in this country) that I am concerned with chiefly.

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | November 4, 2009

  37. Apparently you haven’t been in the country the past 8 years. Christians got their way, and look what happened. Fail.

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | November 4, 2009

  38. I guess the Liberty Bell is next since it has a quote from the Bible on it.

    Comment by Anonymous | November 6, 2009

  39. I guess the Lliberty Bell is next since it has a quote from the Bible

    Comment by ksm | November 6, 2009

  40. More proof that those to claim there is no God supports the notion of total ignorance.

    Oh well it is a free country.

    As to harping about something so stupid….get over it, you are the minority. Learn to live in the minority, we do not cow tow to the minority unless it is something more serious. IE Racism. A phrase on money and trying to argue it shouldn’t be there is a waste of your oxygen.

    Majority rules…toguh luck. Don’t like it move to Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan

    Comment by Davebo | November 10, 2009

  41. Wow… such rhetoric from both sides, this is good. Our forefathers had such vision.
    Why did post revolutionary built churches have an upper and lower floor?
    Think about it or go visit a small new england town such Hancock N.H.

    Comment by Dean | November 15, 2009

  42. What else is new under the sun (Ah, as the Bible says, “nothing”) when mankind wants to “do away with the very God who created us ALL”? Sadly, we’ve become so pig-headedly stubborn and foolish in thought and heart, that we could careless even when we ‘know’ there’s “truth” w-a-y down deep in our sub-conscience that tells us otherwise. Prayer and Bibles taken from schools, America (and a few other countries as well) losing it’s power, murder, rapes, robberies, etc. on the rise, the weather turning against us each and ‘every’ day. But no, it couldn’t be God getting sick and tired of trying to prove to us over and over His existence, which we see all around us day in and day out, but in our foolish stupid thoughts and hearts ‘we’ve’ convinced ourselves it can’t be true. This is beyond sad, it’s a God awful shame, and ultimately there will be a very heavy price to pay, for the way ‘we’ve’ shut the God who wanted nothing from us but to love and care for us via Jesus Christ His Son. Have mercy on us foolish humans God/Jesus, you tired to tell us but we just wouldn’t listen.

    Comment by Jeane M. | November 22, 2009

  43. Some people (Davebo) are just totally ignorant to what this country is supposed to be about. Its not about “the majority” getting their way because they are the majority. It is about supporting the fact that we all are EQUAL and have EQUALLY FREE rights to live by. Just because you might be part of the majority in no way makes you better than someone else. Unfortunately you are the type of ignorant (and arrogant)person that sets a generalization of what other people think of this country. If you don’t like that we are “wasting our oxygen” on something that is important to us…why don’t YOU move to a country that is just for Christians….America was founded on the freedom to believe in whatever you want.
    Oh and what are you going to do when you are no longer a part of the “majority”…it will happen one day! I’m assuming you’re Christian so I’ll also ask.. isn’t the “golden rule” part of the bible, or are you one of those people who pick and choose only certain parts of the bible that you want to follow??

    Comment by Jackie | November 24, 2009

  44. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.
    So that is a little more than the 50 years ago as Jessica, Metro State Atheists and others have stated, so all of you should have done some homework, 1864 to date is some 145 years that the motto has been on our US money not 50,it has only been on our paper money since 1957. If you don’t like motto then don’t look at the back side of the bills, or exchange it with some foreign money that doesn’t have IN GOD WE TRUST on it, better yet move to the country that doesn’t have the motto on it and try to change there way of living, you might meet your maker earlier than you wanted to.

    Comment by Dan | November 29, 2009

  45. why does it matter of when it was put on? the question is, should it be kept on it today? the answer is no because this country is suppose to be free of religious persecution and by having that on our currency or in our anthem is going against any freedom at all by supporting only the majority.

    Comment by Alex | December 2, 2009

  46. if anything and perhaps this is a personal veiw but i see religion as a sign of weakness because people are just afriad of what lies beyond death. i am sorry if i am offending anyone by saying that but i dont see most religious people stopping and thinking about why they actually believe in a faith no matter what faith it is.

    Comment by Alex | December 2, 2009

  47. If I don’t believe in unicorns, I don’t spend my whole life trying to prove they don’t exist. I just go on my merry way.

    The word “God” in the phrase “In God We Trust” can mean any god. To a Buddhist it is Budda. To a Muslim it is Muhammed. To a Christian it is Jesus. To a Jew it is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To an atheist it is themselves.

    The reason I believe in God is because He has changed my life.

    Comment by Peggy | December 3, 2009

  48. then how so did he change your life? if anything i would see a unicorn more possible than some heavenly figure who is all forgiving. Peggy i believe people need to rationalize and seek to solve their problems through strength not saying that I have God on my side so everything will be okay. that is not how the world works. Does it mean any god though on our currency or is it only towards the christian religion because each religion refers to their “God” differently.

    Comment by Alex | December 3, 2009

  49. Alex,
    If I had to list all the ways He has changed my life, I’m sure I would run out of character space on this blog spot. But I will attempt to list a few:

    When I was 16 I wanted to kill myself. Just before doing so I heard a voice whisper in my heart, “Do you believe God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere all the time?” I had to think about it and replied, “Well, yes. If you weren’t all those things then you wouldn’t be God.” His reply was, “Then am I not worth LIVING for?” It is with that I fell on my knees in tears and decided not to take my life.

    When I was 18 I was in a serious car accident. I was sliding on ice, spinning into oncoming traffic and gliding sideways. It was then I said out loud, “This is it!” Suddenly a peace came over me and I said, “Lord, it’s okay if you want to take me now because I know I’ll be with you in Your kingdom.” Then I saw Jesus hovering about 15 feet above the ground in a white robe with his arms opened. His face was glowing and the most beautiful thing was his countenance. I’ve never seen such a peaceful expression on anyones face and yet with a little smile at the same time. Then a truck slammed into my drivers side and my bucket seat was left about 3 inches wide. Somehow I found myself sitting in the passangers seat, not knowing how my legs passed over the console. No broken bones. The only injury was a ruptured spleen. Way before side airbags ever came along, I know that an angel acted as my airbag.

    When I was 30 my appendix ruptured. It had been ruptured for about 5 days before anyone knew it (despite being in the hospital and having tests run). While I lay in the hospital bed I heard an angel whisper in my right ear, “If you don’t have surgery tonight, you will never wake up.” An hour later the doctor walked in and said, “I’m thinking about doing surgery on you either tonight or tomorrow.” My response was, “If I had my way you’d drop what you’re doing now and cut me open.” He said, “You’ve made my decision for me. Tonight it will be.” I had peritonitis, my intestines were floating in pus. The next day when the anesthesiologist came to visit me I told him the story of the angels voice. He agreed that I wouldn’t have made it one more day.

    As a result of that I couldn’t have children. I had five years of fertility doctors. When the month before invitro I got pregnant without fertility intervention! About three years after that we had our second daughter!

    My husband and I are celebrating our 25th anniversary in March. That too is a miracle in itself (no time to go into that whole story). We are more in love than we have ever been.

    The biggest way God has changed my life is that I have such peace inside that empty void that’s in all our hearts. My search to fill it is over.

    Comment by Peggy | December 3, 2009

  50. I am sorry for your rough times in life Peggy, i too have suffered in my life i have lost family to me as a 16 year old right now that has changed my life and will for ever be in my heart shredding me apart every time it comes to mind, but is it not a void to believe in God for the fear of the unknown. People are cowards and will hide or blame others or say things in fear of not knowing what will happen.

    I understand due to my age I will get several comments about even being on here but I do not see why even my generation should not have a say in things that are in our lives every day and for ever will be.

    R.I.P. Dean and Evan my brothers..

    Comment by Alex | December 3, 2009

  51. How about a compromise:
    Expand the motto to “In God we trust; all others must pay cash.”

    Comment by bg | December 8, 2009

  52. Peggy seriously???? What you are saying is basically enough for me to want you committed to the insane asylum. You seem to be living in the typical Christian fantasy world. Deal with this, when you die…..your dead! You get buried so that when your body decays it doesnt infect others(remember that thing called the black plague), not because its some right of passage to see your maker up there in heaven.

    Now, getting back to the money thing. I cannot stand seeing that word “god” on the money, nor having it in our anthem. It really sickens me to continue to see people blindly follow all the stories in the bible as if they were true. You could basically take any fictional book out there and create a religion out of it if you wanted. Just becaue this book has been around a long time doesnt mean its true….infact this book has changed so many times over the course of its history its even harder to know what the original author was even saying.

    Now, another thing that annoys me is having to remove my hat for the anthem. Many people tell me removing a hat during the anthem is to show respect to the soldiers who have died for my freedom. The funniest part is many veterans and younger soldiers I have talked to do not believe in the rule either. They state they fight for our freedom so that we can have the right to make our own choices in life and a hat has nothing to do with showing respect. I did some research on the reasoning behind removing a hat, it is to show respect to “god”, and having that word in our anthem is the reason we are asked to remove our hats. Now dont think I’m some unpatriotic a-hole, because I’m not….I’m far from it. I actually believe I am more patriotic than most people in this country who preach religion and are for military action overseas. I actually know what freedom is, and sadly over the last hundred years this country has forgotten. Infact since 9/11 this country has really forgotten.

    p.s. I’m not some punk kid….I am actually a college graduate who is living a great life. This is all with no religion in my life. Not to mention that the majority of people I know are infact atheists(although some are afraid to tell anyone that), and they are far more happy with their lives than the religious friends I have. Times are changing you religious nuts. better get ready for the apocalypse…hahaha

    Comment by Peggy is a nutter | December 12, 2009

  53. The anger and hatred is really coming through in your response. I’m sorry to hear that. It only makes sense that most of the people you know are atheists….you wouldn’t hang out with a bunch of Christians, would you?

    Twenty one medical doctors and scientists put out the movie entitled, “The Evidence for Heaven” which comes highly recommended. I would encourage you to see it.

    Oddly enough when the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered back in 1948, it was revealed that the text then is the text we have now. I have an Old Testament in Hebrew and a New Testament in Greek and was able to see the Dead Sea scrolls exhibit when it came to Charlotte. The best way to prove the Bible wrong is to study it for yourself.

    Now, getting back to the matter at hand. If it bothers you to remove your hat for the national anthem, then just don’t do it. We live in a democratic society (well, for now at least) which means that the majority rules. So get over all this “God on the money” and “God in the national anthem” stuff.

    There are a lot of things in life I don’t agree with, but I have learned to accept other people’s opinions because they are entitled to them.

    Thank you for your advise for me to be ready for the apocalypse, but I already am.

    Comment by Peggy | December 13, 2009

  54. Peggy I have studied the bible along with the qaran and many religious texts. This is the biggest reason why I am an atheist. The stories that are told in most of those texts are exactly that, just stories. Most of them are simply metaphors as to how that religion thinks you should live your life. You have to remember the times in which these texts were written, the people living in those times did not have the technology or scientific “facts” that we have today. One of the most humorous thoughts I have heard from the bible was that it is only 6000 years old….Really???…..with that comment alone most people in todays world should disregard that book.

    Also I agree that people should have a freedom to choose if they want to be believe in a religion or not. I am not asking to remove religion from this country, what I am asking to stop promoting a certain religion to everyone. You can say majority rules all you want, but by putting “god” in the anthem and on our money it disrespects the many who do not believe in this country. By saying majority rules is like saying that since I am a white male I should be paid more than the black male I work with since being white is in the majority. We as a society are slowly overcoming this racism issue and I am hopeful we as a country will slowly overcome the problems that pushing a certain religion on everyone has.

    As for the hat thing, nearly everytime I am at an event and try to stand up for myself by keeping my hat on during an anthem….(during the anthem I stand quietly, where as)..some idiot(s) have to preach to me that I am an asshole and have no respect for this country. Sadly the society we live in today needs a change badly – and although you wont agree with this, religion is a huge reason why people have these negative views.

    This is why I may have seemed angry in my first post. All I am trying to do is live my life the way I see fit, and to have many people continously tell me my thoughts are wrong and they are right you have to understand why I am upset. This country was built upon diversity and differences and we as a people need to remember that. Whether that be religious beliefs or not, we cannot continue to push a singular way of living to everyone in this country.

    *Peggy most of your comments are simply showing everyone that you are a major Christian. With that said, you seem to be the one who is not seeing things from both sides. I can honestly say using the logic that I have based off my education and era I grew up in I find religion to be non sense, where as you seem to have grown up in an era where religion was still seen as plausible truth. You can go on living the way you want, but please understand that science is proof and religion is faith…….big difference.

    Comment by Anonymous | December 13, 2009

  55. Peggy I have studied the bible along with the qaran and many religious texts. This is the biggest reason why I am an atheist. The stories that are told in most of those texts are exactly that, just stories. Most of them are simply metaphors as to how that religion thinks you should live your life. You have to remember the times in which these texts were written, the people living in those times did not have the technology or scientific “facts” that we have today. One of the most humorous thoughts I have heard from the bible was that it is only 6000 years old….Really???…..with that comment alone most people in todays world should disregard that book.

    Also I agree that people should have a freedom to choose if they want to be believe in a religion or not. I am not asking to remove religion from this country, what I am asking to stop promoting a certain religion to everyone. You can say majority rules all you want, but by putting “god” in the anthem and on our money it disrespects the many who do not believe in this country. By saying majority rules is like saying that since I am a white male I should be paid more than the black male I work with since being white is in the majority. We as a society are slowly overcoming this racism issue and I am hopeful we as a country will slowly overcome the problems that pushing a certain religion on everyone has.

    As for the hat thing, nearly everytime I am at an event and try to stand up for myself by keeping my hat on during an anthem….(during the anthem I stand quietly, where as)..some idiot(s) have to preach to me that I am an asshole and have no respect for this country. Sadly the society we live in today needs a change badly – and although you wont agree with this, religion is a huge reason why people have these negative views.

    This is why I may have seemed angry in my first post. All I am trying to do is live my life the way I see fit, and to have many people continously tell me my thoughts are wrong and they are right you have to understand why I am upset. This country was built upon diversity and differences and we as a people need to remember that. Whether that be religious beliefs or not, we cannot continue to push a singular way of living to everyone in this country.

    *Peggy most of your comments are simply showing everyone that you are a major Christian. With that said, you seem to be the one who is not seeing things from both sides. I can honestly say using the logic that I have based off my education and era I grew up in I find religion to be non sense, where as you seem to have grown up in an era where religion was still seen as plausible truth. You can go on living the way you want, but please understand that science is proof and religion is faith…….big difference.

    Comment by Peggy is a nutter | December 13, 2009

  56. In the above text I meant the Earth is only 6000 years old.

    Comment by Peggy is a nutter | December 13, 2009

  57. I have been talking to some of my friends at school that are very religious and it seems to me that people do not understand that stories are usually a moral teaching not a literal thing. “peggy is a nutter” I think you are correct when you said “understand that science is proof and religion is faith…….big difference”, but unfortunately most people cannot see that science is proven and that religion is no more than people misreading a book of moral teachings.

    Comment by Alex | December 14, 2009

  58. Thank you for explaining why you were upset. I can understand how you would feel that way. I am not one of those Christians who believe the Earth is only 6000 years old.

    I have studied archaeology and geology and found that many of the forms of dating things are not 100% accurate. When it comes to radiocarbon, radiometric, racemization, obsidian, pollen, fossils, stratigraphy, varves, three rings, thermoluminescence, and fission track; carbon-14 is useful in dating things that are not too old. However we must know the age of the item tested in order to know if it is correct.

    For example, a friend of mine took a sample of lava and when it hardened he knew the exact age of the rock. Then he tested it with carbon-14 dating and it was found to be mcuh older than it really was.

    Genesis 1 says:
    1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    This tells me that there was a break in time between verse one and verse two. Many scholars believe that before verse two Lucifer fell (see Isaiah chapter 14, verses 12-17).

    The pieces are picked up in verse three of Genesis until the end of chapter two. This is why many believe that man is 6000 years old, not the Earth.

    Comment by Peggy | December 14, 2009

  59. Well honestly Peggy, you surprise me. You actually seem to be a person with Christian beliefs that actually is able to process things logically as well. I have only come across a few christians in my life that were able to do that.

    I totally agree with you that many scientific methods used to date objects have their flaws. With that said it still seems far more plausible to me that the ages giving by science of the earth being 4.5 billion years old are true. One of my biggest problems with the claim of 6000 years is that something that is pretty much proven is how long it takes to form mountains and say the grand canyon. We have a fairly good idea as to how fast those things get larger and taller and depper, and with that measurement we get those huge numbers in the millions and billions of years.

    I can kinda understand why many with religious beliefs will believe that “humans” have only been around for 6000 years. However, if that was true then I guess the ancient egyptians would have been the first people….but if that is true we have to disregard any life in Mesopotamia that is said to date back atleast 8000 years. The other big flaw in those thoughts in the theory of Pangea in which all our continents and species were one together approx 250 million years ago. To me many religious people do not give science enough of a chance(and I guess many atheists do not give religion a chance either). If religious people understood tectonic plates and how the earth is always reforming and changing then maybe they would understood that it is fooliish to believe in the 6000 year man.

    Long story short its really hard to explain your thoughts through the internet, I usually dont even comment online because I see it as a wasted effort to educate others. This time however I’m glad I did, because although I do not agree with your religion, Peggy, I do think you show what it truly means to be tolerant of others choices. Thank you for that.

    Lastly one thing I like to ask religious people who do not believe in evolution is:
    Have you ever wondered why nearly all creatures(99%) have their eyes, nose, and mouth lined up in the same? Meaning eyes on top, nose below eyes, and mouth below nose.

    *note – the answer isnt they were created in God’s image😉

    Comment by peggy is not a nutter.lol | December 14, 2009

  60. Thank you for your kind words. I do believe in science and know it can prove certain things in the Bible such as the discovery of the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah’s ark in Turkey, etc.

    As far as being created in the image of God is concerned: Although animals have a face like ours with eyes, nose and mouth, humans do look different than animals and have a spirit.

    “God is spirit and seeks those who worship Him in spirit and truth.” John 4:23,24

    Have a Merry Christmas!

    Comment by Peggy | December 24, 2009

  61. The new Amero is coming out and will soon replace all US currency. We will no longer have the dollar as we know it. Similar to the euro in Europe, this will be one currency for Canada, Mexico and the United States. Instead of the “In God We Trust” motto they have replaced it with “United We Stand”.

    You can see what the new bills look like online. They don’t have American presidents on them. I do not recognize the people on the bills. This is just the next step to ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT, ONE WORLD CURRENCY, THE NEW WORLD ORDER and the mark of the beast described in Revelation by which no man can buy or sell unless he receives the mark of the beast.

    Comment by Peggy | February 22, 2010

  62. In God We Trust should be left on the money. Our country was founded by people who believed in God. The United States Of America isn’t some communist country where the leaders tell you what to do. Our country wouldnt be based on the beliefs of In God We Trust if when our country was made they didn’t. If you don’t trust in God its fine you are the one who has to face what hell has instore. Where do you think the Makers of our country got the ideas of freedom and All men are greated equally….

    Comment by Matt | March 3, 2010

  63. Yes, I think that it should stay on the bills IN GOD WE TRUST. There is many people that do not believe in GOD and that never stop them from using the money. In the schools years ago they took out where they prayed and had a flag for the church and it was taken away. If you do not beleive then do not look at it. BUT IT SHOULD STAY ON THE BILL!! That is how I feel about it.

    Comment by cora | March 4, 2010

  64. Yes “In God we trust” Should appear on our U.S. currancy! This country was founded on Christian beliefs. You do not have to be a Christian too live here, but it need be on the U.S. currancy, this goes back to our foundation.

    Comment by Jonathan P. Recor | March 7, 2010

  65. “In God We Trust” should remain on our money because it’s part of this great country’s history.

    Comment by Judy | March 28, 2010

  66. People wonder why things are going the way they are in this country. Why is our unemployment rate and homeless population so high. Why does our government suck. That’s because we have got away from true foundation… God. Why would be bless and prosper a nation that spits in his face. America is drowning in Herridge own blood and it is her own fault. If people would read about sodom and gammora and the book of revelations they would see that we are heading in the same direction. Our country needs God back in the middle of everything and quit worrying bout all the atheist and agnostic people who have no point or drive in their lives. They are the downfall of this great nation. To all the believers just remember…when these things one to pass lift up ur head ur redemption draweth nigh…God bless America. And God bless all of the people that read this. May they come to know u and ur great love….Amen

    Comment by Dustin | April 16, 2010

  67. Who the hell cares what it says on the money? Do you get your faith from a coin? Are you going to read a quarter and become a Christian? This is just another way for one group trying to influence other people instead of just living your own life. Oh wait, you don’t have one.

    Comment by blitzkrieg | June 7, 2010

  68. Only since the 1950’s. Slavery is part of our history…should we bring that back too?

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | July 11, 2010

  69. So that’s why Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli says “As the Government of the United Stated is in not way founded upon the Christian religion”. Oddly, this treaty was signed by John Adams and unanimously ratified by congress. Odd how the founders were the authors of this treaty eh?

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | July 11, 2010

  70. Oddly, the history books that we have been taught from have removed important elements of our nations founding fathers. For example, the final address to our nation that George Washington gave made reference to prayer, God and the Bible. Now we have a generation that was not taught the truth about the founding fathers.

    Comment by Peggy | July 11, 2010

  71. Please see the Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11.

    Comment by Metro State Atheists | July 11, 2010


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